Thanks for the full report. Keep ‘em coming whenever there are new developments worth relaying to the troops.

I wonder if the Limited has lights on the sun visor mirror. Hell, last time I looked, not even the Patriot Limited had a power driver seat—-not even as an option. Seems to me that for a one-vehicle family, a real “wife pleaser” requires a power driver seat unless the couple is about the same height. It’s really good to hear your report on the CVT and the interior. Those are big changes since the first Patriot was introduced.

Anyone think it’s a good value for the average consumer to pay the steep price for a Limited over the Patriot equipped like Reflex’s brother? The front and rear on the Limited are upgraded and look somewhat nicer, but I’m not persuaded the price difference makes it a good value unless you’ve got money to burn, in which case you might be better off with a Liberty. Anybody out there drive an ‘09 Patriot Limited or have experience with one?

Get your story straight!

The Smart car is really safe! Try one.

2009 Jeep Patriot 4×4
E Package
Deep Sea Blue(I think thats the name, its the new blue and its beautiful)
2.4L Engine
Automatic Transmission w/Autostick
Tire and Wheel Group
- 17″ tires and rims
Sun and Sound Group
- Power sunroof
- Boston Acoustics 9 speaker sound system
Slush Mats(they threw them in free)
Lifetime Power Train Warranty
Lifetime Bumper to Bumper Warranty

Not real loaded I know, and we wanted the Tow Package(but were told we’d have to wait till January unfortunatly). The Boston Acoustics sound system is mediocre at best, its not anything special in the head unit, just a factory one with sat, coupled to a mediocre amp. The issue I have is that unfortunatly you can’t just order a sun roof anymore, the 09 couples it with the audio upgrade which is too bad since I’d have rather put in a nice Alpine with that money and still had some left over.

Bad points so far:

- Mediocre audio forced on the sun roof option
- No ability to get a tow package, apparantly no one ever tows with their ‘utility’ vehicle. Yes they list one, but you gotta wait to get it delivered, dealers never order with one for whatever reason.
- I haven’t driven the 08, I can’t really compare the power and handling. The 2.4L seems mediocre to me, its very smooth but does not have much in the way of accelleration or passing power. Keep in mind though, my daily driver is a diesel 06 Liberty, so my idea of accelleration and passing power is higher than the typical owner, and my brother assures me this is a major upgrade over his 97 Honda Accord station wagon.
- No lights on the mirrors in the sun visors. No idea why, I thought all cars had those these days.

Good stuff:

- Shifts very smoothly and autostick is a great compromise(his wife would not go manual) that lets them both have the level of control/automation they wish for. Almost feels luxury in terms of how smoothly it shifts, definatly a ‘wife pleaser’.
- The color is a home run. That has to be the best blue I’ve seen on a car peroid. Looks almost identical to the blue the Viper’s are using, minus the slight purple tint I see in that one. Beats the snot out of Blue Metallic. Definatly eye catching.
- I am not a fan of wheel upgrades, but I must admit that the tire group really does look sharp on this vehicle.
- Handling is superb. I don’t think the turning radius is quite as nice as my Libby, but its very close and beats the heck out of even most small cars(point of comparison is my friend’s new 09 Jetta TDI, great little car but it suprised me how poor its turning radius is compared to my Libby).
- The new interior is awesome. Its amazing how a few seemingly minor changes can so drastically change the feel. I thought I’d hate the round air vents, but they are actually quite nice in person, its chromed in the right places, the arm rests are comfortable now and the overall fit and finish definatly has been paid a lot of attention to. I won’t go so far as to call it a perfect interior(it is still a Jeep after all, and comfort is secondary), but it dosen’t come accross as cheap or utalitarian any longer either.
- Its incredibly spacious inside, with tons of front and rear passenger room. Its odd, his wife was nervous about driving it but in reality its about the same size as their old station wagon, they just did such a good job with interior space that it feels like your driving a larger vehicle than you really are.
- I have no idea why no one else does this, but rear seats that recline are a godsend. First vehicle I’ve encountered that on and its great.
- Option to make the Lifetime warranty a bumper to bumper deal. Yes it cost $3800, however the dealership cut his finance rate in half to get him to buy it and even at full price in my opinion its a no brainer if you are the type who drives your car until it falls apart. As he is one of those types, its a great deal.
- Did I mention how pretty that blue is? I did? Well it bears repeating, its really an amazing color.

So far the impressions are mostly positive. I don’t like the logic with the packaging of options into groups. He couldn’t get the tow package without springing for the $800 off road group, which he doesen’t need, and I already mentioned the sun roof annoyance, paying for a stereo thats likely to just get replaced. It drives nice, just not quite as aggressively as mine, which ultimatly is probably a good thing since its effectively a econo-SUV with its great gas mileage, he dosen’t need to be encouraged to floor it.

I think Chrysler needs a clean break from it’s past to energize the buying public.

The best way to do that is create a new brand that says we are leading the way with new innovative green product: Product too ENVI.

I’m not talking about abandoning the Chrysler Dodge Jeep Brands, but creating a new brand for the consumers that don’t have Chrysler on their radar.

Lets be honest Chrysler sure isn’t known as an earth friendly car company.

ENVI would give Chrysler a chance to recreate itself as the company of innovation, the company that Walter P. Chrysler invisioned: Chrysler Airstream for example was way ahead of it’s time.

Plug in Hybrids and pure electric vehicles will have a limited market mostly metro city car buyers, it is working for Smart Car and Toyota is going to use that model with the new Prius Brand, why not a car too ENVI?

Really Bad!

Congratulations to your brother on the purchase of his Patriot. That vehicle really is eye candy to to those of us who worshiped at the Cherokee shrine and cried when it was killed off. Both Cherokee and Patriot embody authentic American industrial style— purposeful, honest and no-frills. Also, it’s good to learn of the satisfactory dealer experience. There are a lot of good Chrysler-Dodge- Jeep dealers out there. It’s the bad apples that hurt the reputation of the entire dealer body.

Please fill us in from time to time as your brother puts some miles on his Patriot about his experience, both good and bad, and suggestions for improvement. One beef that I’ve had with all three of the Belvedere products is that no power seat is available, not even on the top of the line models. That may not bother some people, but others need it on long trips. Also, let us know if he bought an ‘08 or ‘09;a Limited; CVT or manny tranny; AWD or FWD? Things many of would like to know is if the ‘09 models really do have better NVH and how the tweaks to running gear and power train translates into anything the average driver can feel. That ‘09 interior is one helluva an improvement.

Rich, the marketing scheme you predict for ENVI sounds innovative. I hope that it’s a smashing success and your enthusiasm about it is contagious. . But I have a problem understanding your premise. Why will ENVI be any different from GM’s Chevy Volt? Isn’t Volt also a plug-in? I confess that I do not know because I haven’t read deeply about it. Secondly, won’t ENVI come to market AFTER Chevy Volt? Maybe I’m missing something in your exuberant analysis/prediction, but I am not sure that I recognize the ingredients for the kind of cult car or status symbol that you think is coming down the pike. Whatever it is, I sure hope you are right and that my skepticism is unwarranted.

There have been abuses of the F&F program, and Chrysler has caught dealers playing games with the program.

Most dealers don’t like F&F because the profit margin is not sufficient to stay in business.

We can sell some vehicles at these terms, but we can’t take care of the customer in the manner you and we would like to do, have any room to handle a trade-in, and pay for our people and facility on Friends & Family deals.

The program does help with some incremental sales and has some merit, but I and most dealers are not fans simply due to the very low profit.

I’m glad you found a good dealer—please understand that they probably even made less money on your transaction because they had to go get the car from another dealer and probably did not receive the factory holdback.

Chrysler does compensate us for gas now—-but at $ 2.85 per gallon.

The best way to repay the dealer for a good job is to be a loyal service customer, and to refer other customers to the dealer and your salesperson.

Envi will appeal to a more youthful educated buyer they are more likely to embrace the new alternative fueled vehicles.

They do not want to be part of the past fossil fuel generation, they think of themselves as part of the new Wii, I Phone, Blue Tooth generation. These are consumers that live in Metro Markets that need city cars.

Also Chrysler will generate needed capital thru the sale of Envi franchises and if you listened closely to the Charlie Rose interview of Bob Nardelli you would have learned that many independent money funds are turning to IPO offerings to generate needed capital.

Cerberus is in need of capital, you generate excitement for Envi and then you announce the IPO offering. I believe the IPO offering will come with in next 12 to 18 months.

The argument presented by Nardelli against an IPO offering was an independent Chrysler can move quicker with decision making, but once they have the product portfolio in place there won’t be many decisions that will need to be made for the next 5 to 10 years.

Trust me this is a solid plan and all you have to do is look to Toyota they are all ready will on their way to making Prius a brand rather then one model.

Thank you very much for sharing your insights and predictions with everyone. Everyone here will be keeping a close eye on Tuesday’s teleconference from Auburn Hills.

While I am in no position to dispute any part of your predictions, what appears to me to be the missing link is how Chrysler gets to market with its electric vehicle before GM corners the market with its earlier introduction of the Chevy Volt. Unless Chrysler beats GM to market, what basis is there for thinking Envi will be such a smashing sales success?

Found a dealer that I liked, Rairdon’s Dodge Chrysler Jeep of Kirkland. Good sales guy, they worked with us on everything, and brought one up from a Portland dealer that matched what my brother wanted. Threw in some extras and a full tank of gas without us asking, and treated us like a valued customer despite the Friends and Family discount.

The sales guy also told me a story about the F&F discount and why some dealers may be reacting badly to it. Apparantly one of the local dealers was running *all* sales through as F&F and then using the factory rebate to make their profit. The result was that they were able to undercut every other dealer in the region by a significant amount. He said that is why the program is getting changed after this month. Interesting tidbit if true, any of you dealers heard of this kind of abuse?

Again a Jim Press connection.

It will totally be the in vehicle.

Just listen to the name it says it all: “ENVI”

Old Oscar was right, but it isn’t going to be Imperial or DeSoto it is going to be ENVI.

The Hollywood types will be all over it: ENVI will be the have to be scene in vehicle.

Oh my God did I ever under estimate these guys!

Chrysler will treat the new plug-ins as a separate franchise: ENVI will be Chrysler Newest Franchise.

It will set Chrysler apart from all other manufacturers and Chrysler will reap huge profits from selling ENVI franchises to existing dealers.

Chrysler Dealers will be required to pay a huge new franchise fee’s to sell the new ENVI vehicles aka Scion.

Toyota dealers were required to purchase a Scion franchise from Toyota:This is Jim Press’s connection.

Cerberus is running out of money and needs capital, they will offer Chrysler as a new IPO on the New York Stock exchange by the end of 2009 or early 2010 just before the first ENVI’s are made available to the public.

Tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, you read it here first baby nobody has come up with this anywhere!

All you have to do is connect the dots it all fits.

Here’s the Detroit News article on the Tuesday, Sept. 23, presentation on the electric vehicle. Note that one of the Dealer Council guys says it will be plug-in.

Remember, Mopar Dealer and Rich, we expect a full report from you gentlemen.

Here’s the Sept. 21 Toledo Blade article that is the basis for the Dodge-Nitro.com article posted earlier here. Interesting, ain’t it?

WOW! Toledo could be retooled for Electric Drive vehicles, even Projcet D could go into Toledo
DodgeNitro.com

This would be a good use for funds obtained from any source. Since the banks and credit markets are in no condition to lend to automakers under today’s conditions, there could be no better investment for Uncle Sam and the American taxpayer.