Comments on: Car & Driver critical of Patriot; calls Compass ugly http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032 news, reviews, and buzz on the chrysler group's products Fri, 10 Sep 2010 00:30:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.6 by: Pat O'Toole http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-111191 Mon, 19 May 2008 03:37:21 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-111191 Hi there, I am trying to locate a Chrysler dealer in Dubai - UAE I am interested in the Chrysler Lincoln MKX Hi there, I am trying to locate a Chrysler dealer in Dubai - UAE I am interested in the Chrysler Lincoln MKX

]]> by: Alex Rodriguez http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-21148 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:23:47 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-21148 Check out the following fantastic review from rockcrawler.com. Nice to see an objective review of the entire car and it's performance both off road and on, instead of spending the entire article pointing out one or two faults and ignoring 100 positives.... http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/jeep/patriot_2007/first_drive/index.asp Check out the following fantastic review from rockcrawler.com. Nice to see an objective review of the entire car and it’s performance both off road and on, instead of spending the entire article pointing out one or two faults and ignoring 100 positives….

http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/jeep/patriot_2007/first_drive/index.asp

]]> by: JW http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-20309 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 23:15:11 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-20309 Well I agree the Nitro is a great looking SUV inside and out. So let me be a critic for a few days and I will bash the "industry leaders." Well I agree the Nitro is a great looking SUV inside and out. So let me be a critic for a few days and I will bash the “industry leaders.”

]]> by: Dave http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-20197 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:01:22 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-20197 Someone answer this for me. Why is it that C&D can bash the Patriot when the car isn't even readily available but they still don't have a review of the Nitro which has been available for months? Could it be that there really isn't anything to bash? Could it be that they can't complain about acres of plastic? Could it be that the nitro actually looks and handles better then the so called industry leaders? Come on people, I don't believe for a minute that these magazines are out to bash the domestics. I do believe that they are very much like the cool kids in school. They fear heaping praise on any vehicle that may prove to be a bust. They also fear picking on the top dogs because they might be ridiculed by their peers! Common mantra in the media is "If it bleeds, it leads", the automotive press is no better. They focus on the negative points of these cars because its easier then stepping out on a limb and praising them. Someone answer this for me. Why is it that C&D can bash the Patriot when the car isn’t even readily available but they still don’t have a review of the Nitro which has been available for months? Could it be that there really isn’t anything to bash? Could it be that they can’t complain about acres of plastic? Could it be that the nitro actually looks and handles better then the so called industry leaders?

Come on people, I don’t believe for a minute that these magazines are out to bash the domestics. I do believe that they are very much like the cool kids in school. They fear heaping praise on any vehicle that may prove to be a bust. They also fear picking on the top dogs because they might be ridiculed by their peers! Common mantra in the media is “If it bleeds, it leads”, the automotive press is no better. They focus on the negative points of these cars because its easier then stepping out on a limb and praising them.

]]> by: c http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-20172 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:02:26 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-20172 To me that prove's it,the auto mag's praise accord/camry,people go out and buy them,people do listen to them.How about movie critic's they rave about a movie and 40 million people go see it and just because the critic say's it's good,99% of the time they suck!!It's funny how domestic car's had soft door panel's,dashes,and the critic's bashed them favored the plastic hard interiors of import's,I think it doesnt really matter how good chrysler make's it's interior's the critic's will still bash em. To me that prove’s it,the auto mag’s praise accord/camry,people go out and buy them,people do listen to them.How about movie critic’s they rave about a movie and 40 million people go see it and just because the critic say’s it’s good,99% of the time they suck!!It’s funny how domestic car’s had soft door panel’s,dashes,and the critic’s bashed them favored the plastic hard interiors of import’s,I think it doesnt really matter how good chrysler make’s it’s interior’s the critic’s will still bash em.

]]> by: Carcriticcritic http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-20161 Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:20:39 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-20161 DaveS, I think saying "brainwashed" is overstating the influence, for sure, and am well aware that you merely said that to make a point. But it would be understating to say that the automotive press has no influence. The effect is well-known and widespread in the automotive press; (as well as the motorcycle mags, but that is another story); that is; as the best of the best improves, the general expectations and standards by which all others are judged also improves. The writers and testers are in a relatively unique position in that they can have first hand experience with the best cars in the world. Meanwhile, the rest of the world goes on, happy with their hard plastic dashboards, not knowing what they are missing in having a cushy dashboard. It is such a common happening, that the effect must be irresistible. Imagine stepping out of the latest 7-Series BMW and finding that your next long-term test car is an Escort. In any case, just as I dismiss the advice of GQ when buying clothes, I simply give no weight to the conclusions offered in the popular car mags. I can't resist picking one up occasionally to see the latest quarter-mile and 0-60 times, but outside of the hard data, I don't care what they say. Much better to test-drive and form one's own opinions. As for your point on the Camry and Accord, I have to agree that they are top sellers and also well reviewed. Since I haven't been reading the car mags in years, I can't offer a counterpoint; although it wouldn't be surprising to find a few examples of cars that have reviewed well and didn't sell well, or vice-versa. My general point is, the source of any advice or written work must be considered to validate it's conclusions. I long ago decided that I had little in common with the writers of the popular car press, both idealistically and practically. Therefore their conclusions do not agree with mine; and as my experiences in the auto industry have supported, those conclusions don't agree with many others' also. DaveS, I think saying “brainwashed” is overstating the influence, for sure, and am well aware that you merely said that to make a point. But it would be understating to say that the automotive press has no influence.
The effect is well-known and widespread in the automotive press; (as well as the motorcycle mags, but that is another story); that is; as the best of the best improves, the general expectations and standards by which all others are judged also improves. The writers and testers are in a relatively unique position in that they can have first hand experience with the best cars in the world. Meanwhile, the rest of the world goes on, happy with their hard plastic dashboards, not knowing what they are missing in having a cushy dashboard. It is such a common happening, that the effect must be irresistible. Imagine stepping out of the latest 7-Series BMW and finding that your next long-term test car is an Escort.
In any case, just as I dismiss the advice of GQ when buying clothes, I simply give no weight to the conclusions offered in the popular car mags. I can’t resist picking one up occasionally to see the latest quarter-mile and 0-60 times, but outside of the hard data, I don’t care what they say. Much better to test-drive and form one’s own opinions.
As for your point on the Camry and Accord, I have to agree that they are top sellers and also well reviewed. Since I haven’t been reading the car mags in years, I can’t offer a counterpoint; although it wouldn’t be surprising to find a few examples of cars that have reviewed well and didn’t sell well, or vice-versa.
My general point is, the source of any advice or written work must be considered to validate it’s conclusions. I long ago decided that I had little in common with the writers of the popular car press, both idealistically and practically. Therefore their conclusions do not agree with mine; and as my experiences in the auto industry have supported, those conclusions don’t agree with many others’ also.

]]> by: JW http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19963 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:20:14 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19963 I don't see why the interior is such a big deal anyways. The Caliber/Compass/Patriot are the CHEAPEST models for Dodge and Jeep. I am extremely happy with my '00 Cirrus and it's interior. I got a chance to go to the STL Auto Show this past weekend and sat in the Patriot and Compass and I honestly like them just as much as the new Lincoln MKX or Infiniti FX. My mom looked in the Lincoln and said it had way too much wood and light colors and the Infiniti looked like a Pumpkin on the inside with orange all over the place. I may seem too forgiving for the American cars, but as long as they get me from point A to point B in one piece, then I don't see why a car has to be as luxurious as a house....unless it is a Benz, Beemer, or somethin way up there. I don’t see why the interior is such a big deal anyways. The Caliber/Compass/Patriot are the CHEAPEST models for Dodge and Jeep. I am extremely happy with my ‘00 Cirrus and it’s interior. I got a chance to go to the STL Auto Show this past weekend and sat in the Patriot and Compass and I honestly like them just as much as the new Lincoln MKX or Infiniti FX. My mom looked in the Lincoln and said it had way too much wood and light colors and the Infiniti looked like a Pumpkin on the inside with orange all over the place. I may seem too forgiving for the American cars, but as long as they get me from point A to point B in one piece, then I don’t see why a car has to be as luxurious as a house….unless it is a Benz, Beemer, or somethin way up there.

]]> by: DaveS http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19959 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:41:32 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19959 Carcritic, Please take a minute to think critically and anaylitically about your thesis that "the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public." The public is buying so many Camry's and Accords that they lead the sales charts month after month---and have been doing so for a number of years. The cars panned by the popular automotive press ain't doing so well on the sales charts. Where's the out of touch? You can't have it both ways: Either the automotive press has brainwashed the public with its bias toward foreign cars, or as you wrote, "the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public." Carcritic,

Please take a minute to think critically and anaylitically about your thesis that “the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public.” The public is buying so many Camry’s and Accords that they lead the sales charts month after month—and have been doing so for a number of years. The cars panned by the popular automotive press ain’t doing so well on the sales charts. Where’s the out of touch?

You can’t have it both ways: Either the automotive press has brainwashed the public with its bias toward foreign cars, or as you wrote, “the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public.”

]]> by: DaveS http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19956 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:38:00 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19956 Carcritic, Please take a minute to critically examine your thesis that "the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public." The public is buying so many Camry's and Accords that they lead the sales charts month after month---and have been doing so for a number of years. You can't have it both ways: Either the automotive press has brainwashed the public with its bias toward foreign cars OR, as you wrote, "the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public." Consumers Report has a different ethos, different editors and an entirely different constituency than Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend, and Automobile Magazine. Read their review of Caliber and Compass and compare with their (favorable) review of PT Cruiser. The point is that it is the critics of these publications on this Weblog who have demonstrated lack of objectivity and bias---in the grand tradition of blaming the messenger. Carcritic,

Please take a minute to critically examine your thesis that “the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public.” The public is buying so many Camry’s and Accords that they lead the sales charts month after month—and have been doing so for a number of years.

You can’t have it both ways: Either the automotive press has brainwashed the public with its bias toward foreign cars OR, as you wrote, “the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public.”

Consumers Report has a different ethos, different editors and an entirely different constituency than Car & Driver, Road & Track, Motor Trend, and Automobile Magazine. Read their review of Caliber and Compass and compare with their (favorable) review of PT Cruiser. The point is that it is the critics of these publications on this Weblog who have demonstrated lack of objectivity and bias—in the grand tradition of blaming the messenger.

]]> by: Carcriticcritic http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19950 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:35:47 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19950 DaveS, perhaps I should restate and say that the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public. I've formed these opinions over the years of working as a mechanic and later as a salesperson at a dealership that sold both imported and domestic autos. In my own case, and in that of my customers, as well as personal friends, things that the car press emphasizes, such as hard plastic in the interior, don't mean a thing to them. Since I don't know any auto writers personally, I can only guess that after you have a chance to spend some time in the best vehicles in the world, your standards and opinions change. But since I can't and never will be able to judge all other cars by those very high standards, I've formed my own standards, and my conclusions are usually markedly different from C&D, MT or R&T. And I happen to believe that my own standards are more realistic and shared by a larger percentage of the buying public. DaveS, perhaps I should restate and say that the popular automotive press is out of touch with the buying public.
I’ve formed these opinions over the years of working as a mechanic and later as a salesperson at a dealership that sold both imported and domestic autos. In my own case, and in that of my customers, as well as personal friends, things that the car press emphasizes, such as hard plastic in the interior, don’t mean a thing to them.
Since I don’t know any auto writers personally, I can only guess that after you have a chance to spend some time in the best vehicles in the world, your standards and opinions change. But since I can’t and never will be able to judge all other cars by those very high standards, I’ve formed my own standards, and my conclusions are usually markedly different from C&D, MT or R&T. And I happen to believe that my own standards are more realistic and shared by a larger percentage of the buying public.

]]> by: rick http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19912 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:32:26 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19912 chrysler hasn't done an outstanding interior since the original pacifica which was too far along in development for dieter and wolfgang to pull money out of when they arrived. every other product conceived under their watch has met with the same criticisms...every review of the 300 mentioned disappointment with the downmarket plastics and it's been the same old story ever since with every successive launch. this company should have figured out a way to achieve their cost-cutting goals through a synergy with the folks in germany instead of taking it out of the area of the car where the customer interacts with the vehicle the most. when oh when are we going to see this issue addressed? chrysler hasn’t done an outstanding interior since the original pacifica which was too far along in development for dieter and wolfgang to pull money out of when they arrived. every other product conceived under their watch has met with the same criticisms…every review of the 300 mentioned disappointment with the downmarket plastics and it’s been the same old story ever since with every successive launch. this company should have figured out a way to achieve their cost-cutting goals through a synergy with the folks in germany instead of taking it out of the area of the car where the customer interacts with the vehicle the most. when oh when are we going to see this issue addressed?

]]> by: c http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19898 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:09:11 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19898 IF it was a toyota/honda they would praise the interior's,I've been in & looked at many import's and they do not impress me!!(best friend sell's car's at a multi make dealer get's lot's of demo's )The lay out in most import car's are extremely ugly and they all have cheap ugly plastic interior's,if you noticed in the article for the Patriot they said no squeeks or rattles tell that to my buddy with his 2 toyota's they squeek and rattle and 1 friend with an acura which the cheap plastic interior scratche's very easily(trim piece's)and ,to me, the layout on those car's are awfull and gob's of CHEAP,CHEAP,CHEAP plastic!!!People like to copy everyone else 1 person say's something they all change there opinion to agree with that person,of course car&driver,road&track,motortrend hate the jeep's,unless they get all new people to review the car's, the opinion's they have will alway's be the same #1 import's and throw in a domestic car of the year every so often to keep the simple minded people happy!!! IF it was a toyota/honda they would praise the interior’s,I’ve been in & looked at many import’s and they do not impress me!!(best friend sell’s car’s at a multi make dealer get’s lot’s of demo’s )The lay out in most import car’s are extremely ugly and they all have cheap ugly plastic interior’s,if you noticed in the article for the Patriot they said no squeeks or rattles tell that to my buddy with his 2 toyota’s they squeek and rattle and 1 friend with an acura which the cheap plastic interior scratche’s very easily(trim piece’s)and ,to me, the layout on those car’s are awfull and gob’s of CHEAP,CHEAP,CHEAP plastic!!!People like to copy everyone else 1 person say’s something they all change there opinion to agree with that person,of course car&driver,road&track,motortrend hate the jeep’s,unless they get all new people to review the car’s, the opinion’s they have will alway’s be the same #1 import’s and throw in a domestic car of the year every so often to keep the simple minded people happy!!!

]]> by: Guenter G http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19891 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:30:06 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19891 I don't know who's in charge at DCX for the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep interiors, i just know, that with the kind of dash and door layout as seen in Caliber and Compass they will never be a success in Europe. It all started with the otherwise great 300. It's a great car but you don't feel at home in it. Take a look at cars like the Golf or even the european GM products - they play in another league! And people love them. They either buy a really cheap car or one they really like. So DCX should decide which way to go. My dealer in Austria just got his first Compass - first impression was: Hey, that one looks different but good. Until i opened the door. And EVERYBODY here has the same impression. And just read the last comparo about the new Sebring - took LAST place! It may not happen that a new midsize car from 2007 handles worse than a six year old 300M! I don’t know who’s in charge at DCX for the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep interiors, i just know, that with the kind of dash and door layout as seen in Caliber and Compass they will never be a success in Europe. It all started with the otherwise great 300. It’s a great car but you don’t feel at home in it. Take a look at cars like the Golf or even the european GM products - they play in another league! And people love them. They either buy a really cheap car or one they really like. So DCX should decide which way to go.
My dealer in Austria just got his first Compass - first impression was: Hey, that one looks different but good. Until i opened the door. And EVERYBODY here has the same impression.
And just read the last comparo about the new Sebring - took LAST place! It may not happen that a new midsize car from 2007 handles worse than a six year old 300M!

]]> by: JW http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19883 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:50:18 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19883 I actually like the Compass, but I would rather have a Patriot since it has more "4x4" options. I actually like the Compass, but I would rather have a Patriot since it has more “4×4″ options.

]]> by: Alex Rodriguez http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19880 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:39:50 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19880 Dave, I am in agreement about the interiors of most DCX products. But the interior of the 300C isn't anything to write home about either, but it won awards based on exterior styling, power and handling. Car and Driver, along with Road and Track are the worst. Every issue is 90% import vehicle reviews, flowing with love for anything from the land of the Rising Sun, where they can do no wrong. The Patriot got high praise from C&D, about as good as anything that comes out of the USA is going to get. As far as the loss, you know and I know that the loss was based on two things: 1. Overproduction in late 2005 and early 2006 and piss poor inventory management. 2. End of life on several models and delays on new model introductions due to #1. Sales the last two months were up over 2005 and I am predicting a great January and first quarter for Chrysler. Bad interiors or not. Dave, I am in agreement about the interiors of most DCX products. But the interior of the 300C isn’t anything to write home about either, but it won awards based on exterior styling, power and handling.

Car and Driver, along with Road and Track are the worst. Every issue is 90% import vehicle reviews, flowing with love for anything from the land of the Rising Sun, where they can do no wrong.

The Patriot got high praise from C&D, about as good as anything that comes out of the USA is going to get.

As far as the loss, you know and I know that the loss was based on two things: 1. Overproduction in late 2005 and early 2006 and piss poor inventory management. 2. End of life on several models and delays on new model introductions due to #1.

Sales the last two months were up over 2005 and I am predicting a great January and first quarter for Chrysler. Bad interiors or not.

]]> by: DaveS http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19876 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:01:31 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19876 Alex, ole buddy, you and Carcritic are in a state of denial. Beware of taking out your frustration on the messenger. American manufacturers have taken it on the chin in the automotive press, because their products have deserved it. Nobody bitched about foreign bias in the automotive press when the 300C was getting all those rave reviews and was named Motor Trend's Car of the Year. But when the car magazines call a spade a spade on Caliber-Compass-Patriot, we are treated to a bellyfull of crap about foreign bias. Car and Driver isn't responsible for those cheap interiors, it's just reporting their existence. Direct your anger at Auburn Hills for problems with product, not at those who report it. None of the car magazines caused Chrysler Group to lose $1.5 billion in the last quarter. Alex, ole buddy, you and Carcritic are in a state of denial. Beware of taking out your frustration on the messenger. American manufacturers have taken it on the chin in the automotive press, because their products have deserved it.
Nobody bitched about foreign bias in the automotive press when the 300C was getting all those rave reviews and was named Motor Trend’s Car of the Year. But when the car magazines call a spade a spade on Caliber-Compass-Patriot, we are treated to a bellyfull of crap about foreign bias. Car and Driver isn’t responsible for those cheap interiors, it’s just reporting their existence. Direct your anger at Auburn Hills for problems with product, not at those who report it. None of the car magazines caused Chrysler Group to lose $1.5 billion in the last quarter.

]]> by: Alex Rodriguez http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19869 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:31:02 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19869 I agree with carcritic, this is actually a good review for an American Car in Japan Car and European Driver. They really try to overemphasize the bad (a low budget interior) and underemphasize the good (everything else). But they end up saying they like the Patriot so WOW!! :-) I agree with carcritic, this is actually a good review for an American Car in Japan Car and European Driver. They really try to overemphasize the bad (a low budget interior) and underemphasize the good (everything else). But they end up saying they like the Patriot so WOW!! :-)

]]> by: Carcriticcritic http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19864 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:02:17 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19864 Well, of course they don't like it. It wasn't made by BMW, Honda, or Toyota. The popular car press stinks. Well, of course they don’t like it. It wasn’t made by BMW, Honda, or Toyota. The popular car press stinks.

]]> by: CarBuyer http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19838 Wed, 31 Jan 2007 07:17:15 +0000 http://www.chryslerweblog.com/?p=1032#comment-19838 This is very bad news.There are so many nice vehicles out there.Who in theyre right mind would want to pay all kinds of money on a cheap vehicle with plastic interior?If Chrysler doesnt pull their act together soon,they will lose so much more money.can you say,chapt 11? This is very bad news.There are so many nice vehicles out there.Who in theyre right mind would want to pay all kinds of money on a cheap vehicle with plastic interior?If Chrysler doesnt pull their act together soon,they will lose so much more money.can you say,chapt 11?

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